13 Sep 2012
Posted by cxmagblog 
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Should product reviews make manufacturers happy? Here’s one that didn’t.
For over 22 years CX has held editorial independence as a hard won principle, so we were not about to ship our X32 review to Behringer for ‘approval’ before we published. Now we wonder whether we (Julius and Jimmy Den Ouden) went too hard.
Which is where YOU come in, because our readers are our jury. We value your comments about our approach, below.
Was THIS part over the top? (Julius wrote this….)
First some background on Austrian uber genius Uli Behringer, who I once interviewed in Germany. Myth has him living in an evil eyrie, a granite hued mansion atop a cliff overlooking the South China Sea. Huge glass walls frame the tropical storms as Uli composes another opus on his 1872 cabriole leg Stienway. A timid servant scurries out with a tray of caviar and a flute of Bol as the maestro is interrupted by a call from his foreman at Uli City, the entire province in deepest darkest China. Tens of thousands of grateful white coated technicians churn out shiploads of audio and musical equipment and receive guidance from above.
Was this the part they didn’t like? (Pic from the GEARBOX video review, view it here)
Or this:
The truth is possibly somewhat less interesting, but there is a facility styled as a city in China, and it appears to be approaching Apple corporation quality levels if the X32 is any indication.
But not before our hero plucked Midas and Klark Teknik from the safe arms of the Bosch conglomerate for a considerable amount of Euro’s. His privately owned Music Group had stormed the bastille of audio and captured the Midas DNA. The holy grail of British live audio console manufacturers – the Neve of live. Stolen by Uli Behringer from the hearts and the console risers of the working engineer. Purists were shocked, incensed and offended. Beer was sunk in tribute at hasty wakes in county pubs across the royal homeland. ‘Oh aye, they’ll be dead by sunrise me lad … nay, by the stroke of midnoy’t!’
Maybe this, the concusion of the Julius part of our Gearbox review:
Do I like it? Yes I do. Would I trust it on a professional gig? Not yet. Recently I was off duty at a show with my family, on paid tickets. Suddenly there was an enormous outbreak of digital noise at peak level that almost blew the toupee off the geezer in row 2. Two more of these uncommanded and highly offensive outbreaks happened during the concert, and later on the engineer explained his digital mixing desk (not a Behringer) was haunted. Still later, he discovered the manufacturer had quickly released a new version of the operating system to alleviate this destructive quirk.
The review then took a new turn, as Jimmy weighed in:
I’m not sold on this desk.
The X32 is priced not far from the Behringer DDX thing of a decade ago, but it does lots more. Given generational advancement and the whole thing about everyone wanting more for the same money, the X32 is a logical progression.
Setting up a basic mix is a fairly straightforward process once you initialize the whole console – there were no default scene files in our test unit so a factory init was the only way we could be sure everything was back at zero.
Basic operation – pushing up faders and getting noise out of it – is intuitive and it all makes sense. Good for novice users. But to me that’s where it ends. Some of the system options on the screen (patching inputs and outputs) make sense, but other elements of this console are wildly counter-intuitive. I’ve mashed enough buttons on enough consoles to know how long it should take me to setup a matrix mix, and on the X32 it took too long. The controls feel cheap but solid enough.
It sounds exactly like what it is – a four thousand dollar digital desk. Adequate, but not great. EQs work okay as do channel dynamics, but I can’t help but get the feeling that the overall dynamic range is somehow choked. Soloing a channel with a mic plugged into it, I felt like I should have been hearing more. Or less – with no processing in line the input signal still sounded somehow compressed. I put it next to an OLD Behringer MX1602 analogue console just for laughs – the 1602 sounded better.
The upside here is that the X32 will be way forgiving for novice operators – and these are probably the hands in which it will commonly land at this price. The headphone amp is gutless, and seeking more level by hitting the preamps harder doesn’t yield good results. The box says “powered by Midas”, and while it’s got XL200 style “flexibility” with the gain pot, it’s just not the same.
Would I buy the X32 if I had the option to spend twice as much? No. Would I buy it if it were the only thing in my price range? Yes, and I’d probably be very happy with it too.
They were very unhappy – and the advert commitment is over now. That does happen – at least they didn’t go as far as the famous Musiclink meltdown of 2009 when we had the audacity to mention a small fact, that Musiclink were in the same ownership cabal as Billy Hyde. THAT meltdown over our breach of some secret rule that one must never associate the music importer with the chain of music stores they owned almost had us call Lifeline out of concern for the Musiclink executives concerned. Our instinct was to mail them a house brick, postage collect, but we didn’t do this since the last time we used this tactic we were rightly accused of being aggressive.
So for balance, the whole Behringer review is here, from top to bottom.
If you’d like to read it in laid out format and see the nice pictures we took, go here:
http://www.cx-mag.com/behringer-x32-review-sept-2012.html
ALSO, see our Video Review, here at cx-tv.
Tell us whether we went too far… and how.
FULL TEXT OF CX MAGAZINE REVIEW:
Behringer X32 live sound mixing system
Powered by Midas. What does that mean?
By Julius Grafton
I tried hard to hate the X32
First thing I made Jimmy do was to stress test this new audio console by running signal in for 24 hours, with a Par Can up the backside to heat it up, and record the output. Then we watched the timeline to see if it wheezed or panted. The timeline was rock solid.
We had a hard listen to the input preamp at all gain settings, especially flat out. I love the sound of digital eggs frying.
Finally I did the Julius test, which is to find out how long it would take me to build a 32 channel live mix, and send out 2 effects plus six sends of monitors.
Results below.
First some background on Austrian uber-genius Uli Behringer, who I once interviewed in Germany. Myth has him living in an evil eyrie, a granite hued mansion atop a cliff overlooking the South China Sea. Huge glass walls frame the tropical storms as Uli composes another opus on his 1872 cabriole leg Stienway. A timid servant scurries out with a tray of caviar and a flute of Bol as the maestro is interrupted by a call from his foreman at Uli City, the entire province in deepest darkest China. Tens of thousands of grateful white coated technicians churn out shiploads of audio and musical equipment and receive guidance from above.
The truth is possibly somewhat less interesting, but there is a facility styled as a city in China, and it appears to be approaching Apple corporation quality levels if the X32 is any indication.
But not before our hero plucked Midas and Klark Teknik from the safe arms of the Bosch conglomerate for a considerable amount of Euro’s. His privately owned Music Group had stormed the Bastille of audio and captured the Midas DNA. The holy grail of British live audio console manufacturers – the Neve of live. Stolen by Uli Behringer from the hearts and the console risers of the working engineer. Purists were shocked, incensed and offended. Beer was sunk in tribute at hasty wakes in county pubs across the royal homeland. ‘Oh aye, they’ll be dead by sunrise me lad … nay, by the stroke of midnoy’t!’
OVERVIEW
Maizels and I saw X32 at Vegas alongside the Midas stand. The ‘Powered by Midas’ on the front had drawn a crowd, and the Americans were keen to know the price. Just like here at CX as visitors swing into the studio to see the latest device in review. ‘How much do you reckon it costs?’ we ask. Seven to ten grand, they say.
Try around 4 grand. With the entry level Midas up around 10 grand, the X32 could sell for 7. But Behringer tend to rely on low price points, and in doing so make them the most terrifying name in pro audio, especially as they just purchased Turbosound.
Why sell it for 4 grand, when to start at 7 would be logical? Why not give those poor, destitute, hungry, arse-hanging-out retailers some love this one time? A product like this encourages estranged retailers to open an account and come into the Behringer fold. But wait, and cue the edict from the man on the cliff: “Nein. It vil sell for 4 grand. Ve must maintain ze ratio of cost to retail. Und ve vill destroy ze enemy before dawn. Im Auftrag…. wir werden den Markt dominieren mit Preis wie unsere tödliche Waffe.“
32 inputs, 24 outputs, 6 auxiliary inputs and 6 auxiliary outputs, all on the back panel set the scene. The X32 is designed for live – it has 16 input faders and you flip bank to get to channels 17 to 32.
You can’t really run more than 16 sends, so it is a middle market stage monitor desk if you choose to use it for this task. 16 sends means 8 stereo sets of in-ears, enough for most acts but not the ones I mix.
But it has Midas AES50 ports, so you can Cat 5 off to another X32 (say side of stage, as a monitor console) or the Midas S16 stage box or the P16 personal monitor system – which is Behringer’s take on the earlier Aviom or Roland implementation of this. iPad remote control is also standard.
OPERATOR VIEW
16 faders for input, 6 segment input LED ramp, coloured multi line label screen, and solid backlit buttons for mute, solo and select. Above the 16 sets of these is the selected channel controls, preamp to dynamics, EQ stage and then 4 bus sends with 4 sets of switches to access all 16 sends. Main bus mono and pan complete this area of the console.
Above the eight master group faders, which can be Group/DCA or Bus or Matrix faders, is the 800 x 400 (not touch) screen with system buttons, CUE led ramps and rotary encoders.
At console right is the output master, 12 user assigns, 6 mute buttons and stay bits along with a nice smart phone holder. The headphone jacks are hidden in the grab handles on each side. For navigation a little graphic points the way from the front panel on each side, otherwise we would never have found them.
X2 has enough lights and colours to attract attention, and the industrial engineering is correct for me. I don’t like girly designs and missing bits like I see every other day on some other brands. This console says ‘professional live sound’ in an assertive voice. The front panel doesn’t flex much when I slump on it, elbows down, 80 kg of pulsating sound guy.
37 different devices are available for 8 effects places – reverbs, delays, effects or graphic EQs. The default patch has effects 1 – 4 taking input from bus 13 – 16, or you can insert an effect over a channel.
Like all digital desks, there is a gate / compressor combo on every channel and output.
Do I like it? Yes I do. Would I trust it on a professional gig? Not yet. Recently I was off duty at a show with my family, on paid tickets. Suddenly there was an enormous outbreak of digital noise at peak level that almost blew the toupee off the geezer in row 2. Two more of these uncommanded and highly offensive outbreaks happened during the concert, and later on the engineer explained his digital mixing desk (not a Behringer) was haunted. Still later, he discovered the manufacturer had quickly released a new version of the operating system to alleviate this destructive quirk.
For balance, read what my erstwhile colleague has to say, below.
JIMMY’S X32 NOTES
I’m not sold on this desk.
The X32 is priced not far from the Behringer DDX thing of a decade ago, but it does lots more. Given generational advancement and the whole thing about everyone wanting more for the same money, the X32 is a logical progression.
Setting up a basic mix is a fairly straightforward process once you initialize the whole console – there were no default scene files in our test unit so a factory init was the only way we could be sure everything was back at zero.
Basic operation – pushing up faders and getting noise out of it – is intuitive and it all makes sense. Good for novice users. But to me that’s where it ends. Some of the system options on the screen (patching inputs and outputs) make sense, but other elements of this console are wildly counter-intuitive. I’ve mashed enough buttons on enough consoles to know how long it should take me to setup a matrix mix, and on the X32 it took too long. The controls feel cheap but solid enough.
It sounds exactly like what it is – a four thousand dollar digital desk. Adequate, but not great. EQs work okay as do channel dynamics, but I can’t help but get the feeling that the overall dynamic range is somehow choked. Soloing a channel with a mic plugged into it, I felt like I should have been hearing more. Or less – with no processing in line the input signal still sounded somehow compressed. I put it next to an OLD Behringer MX1602 analogue console just for laughs – the 1602 sounded better.
The upside here is that the X32 will be way forgiving for novice operators – and these are probably the hands in which it will commonly land at this price. The headphone amp is gutless, and seeking more level by hitting the preamps harder doesn’t yield good results. The box says “powered by Midas”, and while it’s got XL200 style “flexibility” with the gain pot, it’s just not the same.
Would I buy the X32 if I had the option to spend twice as much? No. Would I buy it if it were the only thing in my price range? Yes, and I’d probably be very happy with it too.
COMMENTS VALUED!
64 Comments
I’d have said no harm done, but humour doesn’t always travel well. I would be more upset about the redundant (possessive) use of the apostrophe in Euro’s, but then I am supposedly a pedant who should get out more!
I suspect it was the last paragraph that caused the problem, would you buy this desk etc; Only a complete moron with a history of lobotomy’s would buy a different desk in this price range and x4. But to be fair, Jimmy hasn’t said whether he comes in that catagory or not. The other possibility is that you are a label snob and very wealthy… but the story is similar to Skoda cars, once utterly dreadful, (which Behringer never really was) and now a real quality product with the intervention of VW. So. I’ve bought one and am covering it in Midas stickers… for now. And am VERY happy!
I think the review was ok Julius. Maybe the myth of the guy’s castle might have offended him. So what? This company has a well-earned reputation as a manufacturer of cheap but sort of ok equipment. As a PA provider I know the only hard and fast rule I’m given by touring sound-techs is “No Behringer gear”! If the company wish to improve their reputation, they will have to work very hard indeed. As your second reviewer stated-the stuff is ok if you have a strict budget, but, given the choice, we’d all prefer to spend a bit extra to get something we can be proud of owning. Anyone who has had a piece of Behringer equipment fail at a crucial moment will know the old adage-”You will be remembered for your stuff-ups long after they’ve forgotten your trouble-free shows”
CX did not “Flame” the product but gave, in what I can see, a realistic review. Nobody should get shot for saying it how it is !!.
all useful information, and entertaining as well, thank you
Read it last night in the mag. Seemed fair to me. Perhaps you should have made a bit more noise about the price, then readers would have been in a better position to consider the review based on where the product is placed in the market.
At this price point it’s not about what the product can do but how consistent it is in manufacture. It’s clearly pitched against the PreSonus which has had problems in manufacturing that are now “known about” in the industry as a fantastic desk but with too many “show stopper” manufacturing faults to be trusted to serious gigging.
The CX review was fair as a first up review. The value of a product is never reqally known until the rubber hits the road and that hasnt happened yet for the Behringer desk.
As a former editor of your magazine, I always thought this particular problem both amusing and concerning.
Finding that balance between creating prose that the reader will enjoy, being factually accurate, while maintaining the “tongue in cheek” writing style that is typical of CX ain’t no easy thing. Plus, there is no denying that anyone that walks up to any piece of equipment will be biased by the logo it holds – whether it be positive or negative.
In my opinion, the first line of your article puts your bias on display, and allows that reader to then follow the logic of the argument as you laid it out.
From the manufacturer’s perspective, EVERY managing director of a company has people that tell them how good their product is. Sure the shortcomings may be understood internally, but it is the “paid job” of the owner and every employee to spruik for the “team”. In this world of marketing spin, when a piece of prose does not sit comfortably with the team, well, there are three options:
- Take the criticism as constructive, and work out what needs to be done. Are your users feeling the same thing? Are there real problems with the product? Did the reviewers get it right? …and so on
- Ignore the criticism and take a “what would they know” attitude. This is amusing because the problems are never addressed, and R&D is the loser.
- Hit the “nuclear” button, and go nuts. This is rarely a good thing for the manufacturer – simply because a media organisation has the perfect medium to put that nuttiness into the open for others to see.
My advice to Mr Behringer is damage control 101:
1. Invite a CX person to come to the factory and meet the R&D team that designed the product
2. During that meeting, give an impression of taking a real interest in what the pesky media people say
3. Use or ignore the outcomes as you see fit.
This will result in far better media outcomes then any ad that you can place, and you might just change that first line in the next article from “I tried hard to hate the X32”, to “You have GOT to see this one…”
Well actually I thought you guys would be way harder on this product. But like me I think you were just stating / confirming what most of us are thinking. I have checked one out in the flesh but not used or heard it and I am keenly aware of the DNA thing from the other companies and can see masses of applications and markets for it but I would not use it personally for live production. I think it is fair, not brave or snobbish of you, just fair.
If the Op amps are different than previous Behringer gear and the processing clean and unclouded it may end up under the fingers of many small live venues who need a leg up or churches who are not cashed up but are feeling the pull towards a bigger experience.
At that price and range of features somethings gotta give. But I am prepared to be surprised when inevitably I have to mix on one in a venue who will proudly list their X32 on their in house equipment list.
For the record I have an SC48 ver 3 with Stage Remote and this gets work and is on riders as well as a LS9-16 and 32 which are not on riders but find them selves doing work when needed. Small community gigs and backup monitors and the LS9-16 wins out on small corp gigs or get in / out fast shows. Don’t love the sound when metered low but almost everyone can operate it and I use it with dual ADAT I/O with an Octopre(1) and it’s been stable. (Reclocking with external clock has mixed results, I think you have to meter harder on the inputs for a cleaner signal)
I have considered a Midas Pro1 and Pro2 combo with shared stage rack (price point). Small footprint, great sound, not on riders but the sound quality is a given and the user work flow may be forgiven. This may end up as an internal mix system for medium shows where it is just us operating.
I have owned Behringer gear over the years and won and lost battles with it and had acquired it at a price point that I could afford but soon shifted out of the “bang for buck” or “It’s great for what it does at that price” mentality. In some ways it was the point of difference on more pro gear that made me buy into better equipment (which sometimes have their own quirks as well).
So all of my rationale should point to me buying an X32 based on decisions on price, function, digital core, footprint and the work flow seems ok, but something, (not CX and before the article) is telling me no.
Hmmm … &-}
I found it a good read; but happy it was not my product you were reviewing. The reference to the digital console being haunted (not Behringer) was the main thing that stuck out as it may infer to some that all digital consoles behave this way.
The fact that Behringer target the prosumer rather than the professional market must color the review, there is no point in making the unwashed expect more than they are going to get. I loved the comparison with the old analogue predecessor as it tells the story of some unresolved design issues in the digital/analogue converter stage which is not surprising given the price.
Julius, a little on the edge of too cheeky for me, he was gracious enough to grant you an interview which sold your magazines and you now pi….s all over him, good work. I am more interested in finding out the brand and model of digital console that did play up at the gig you were speaking about. It seems an unfair omission to have stated the event in a Behringer review but not named the actual culprit. There is some credible information, or is it?
Apart from Steinway being spelled with an ass-about “ie” (and the aforementioned apostrophe abuse) I see no issue with your piece gents. From my experience, what you have presented gives a pretty reasonable reflection of the general Aussie street vibe surrounding the brand and product. You have given your impressions along with a good dose of sarcastic humour – the type well used and abused in the territory of live music production. Surely that’s OK?
Hi guys,
It seems like a fairly standard, unbiased industry user-based review. Having not seen, let alone used this console, I am basing my initial impression on your review (by two individuals no less), yet noone who is going to spend $4-10k on any piece of pro gear, would rely soley on any review and would road test the item in question.
I am still intrigued by the console and the developments by Behringer, and if anything it makes me want to watch more closely on their future developments. Let’s face it very few manufacturers get it right first time.. Ever! I never buy the first release of anything, so I wouldn’t buy this even if you said it’s the Rolls Royce and I’m gonna regret it otherwise. I would hold off, let the bugs unfold, allow the users to react to what needs to improve and the consider version two. You’ve outlined straight away some pros and cons, and if Behringer are smart about it they could learn from them.
Good review guys, and nice to put it out for feedback, unusual in itself.
Feel free to pass on or use any of my comments too.
Keep up the great work!
Kealan
Production Manager
AV1
I think that it might have been this bit that upset Uli………
“But wait, and cue the edict from the man on the cliff: “Nein. It vil sell for 4 grand. Ve must maintain ze ratio of cost to retail. Und ve vill destroy ze enemy before dawn. Im Auftrag…. wir werden den Markt dominieren mit Preis wie unsere tödliche Waffe.“
………..don’t mention the war…….. remember!
Seems fair.
You have to be very careful when attempting humour with Germans, they have a different humour DNA to the rest of the world. I should know as I am married into a part German Family, love those crazy germans.
Based on the comments of the two CX reviewers, and drawn to the Behringer web page by the lively discourse, and after a lot of thought, I’ve decided to buy one. So there.
Of course, as it’s a brand new “bleeding edge” product, it will be run “offline” for a month or so to see that it is stable and safe, before being unleashed on a live show.
The Behringer people need to take a chill pill. They are fine. Uli’s piano is fine. The X32 is almost-certainly fine. All is well!
It is always clever to understand how people react to humour BEFORE you lambast them, especially if they are paying some of the bills.
I know most of the readers are big name, front liners for productions that cost the same amount as feeding 5000 starving migrant workers, but there are some of us that sometime manage to feed the 5000 using the bread and fish routine. I am a low budget user who is very impressed by the heritage of the new desk. Dropping names like Midas and Klark Teknik and replacing several numbers with a decimal point when you list the price DOES interest me.
Most of my gear is Berhinger and whilst not strictly “on the road” I move it from venue to venue when I get a gig. My MX 3282 Euro Desk is over ten years old and has never missed a beat, even when set up and packed down every Sunday for two years solid.
I liked the appraisal and the wit (but the long winded ‘First some background….’), added nothing to the piece. I like it when you ‘dumb it down ‘ a bit so I can learn and understand stuff. I love my Duncan Fry manual that tells me how to wind cables and keep you hands under the box as you load in through the door so you don’t take your knuckles out on the door jamb.
Keep up the great work and thanks for reviewing some of the lower-priced gear because there are some little guys out here that look to you guys for knowledge, guidance and inspiration and we do it on a very tight budget.
I find this so funny. Even if we the people didn’t say it – we are all thinking the same thing. The test itself was fair and comprehensive and the results are the results – cant argue with them. You are not apart of the company so wether they like it or not you can say what you like. I’m sure if the console was as good as the Midas although you’d still add some humour you would still give it a great review. Don’t bow to the public pressure of having to please everyone – thats not a magazine thats a product brochure!!
The bit about a non-Behringer digital board that had problems was ridiculous and set a bit of a tone. Having said that though, the rest of the review was fine and just part of life in the big leagues. Had this been me in the marketing seat I would have pulled the ads and enjoyed the free press and PR that has developed via this review. But that’s just me.
Screw ‘em if they can’t take a joke (and I’ve not known too many Germans with a sense of humour as we see it). A reviewers job is not to pander to the ego of the manufacturer or their design team. It was a fairly straightforward review, gave the pluses and minuses etc. I am also one who would not use a Behringer full stop, the day Midas/Klark Teknik was wrested from the arms of it’s British creators was bad enough.
The selling price puts it roughly, if not squarely, in the same market as the Presonus Studio Live desk. One which appears interesting but I have yet to lay hands on one to see is they are what the manufacturer claims.
Any new console , particularly of the digital variety will have a few bugs in it. Some manufacturers will have the foresight to listen to the end users and sort them out. Others will take a certain well established American OS developer’s approach and say ‘Let the end users work out the bugs and tell us. We won’t necessarily fix them, but we’ll listen to them and try to make it harder the next time’.
It’s apples for apples, and if the desk does some things well, and other things not so well or it still feels a bit ‘plasticy’, then look at the price tag for gods sake.
You do still basically GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
Good job cx, keep the independant reviews comming.
I can read the manafacturers blurb if i want to read an influinced article!
Love it!
Sorry Julius, but racial stereotyping just doesn’t cut it in our PC world.
Those of us who have been around the block a few times know Behringer kit for what it is, entry level product aimed at amateurs. It functions reasonably well, is not sufficiently robust for pro use, and is attractively priced.
Magazines that bluntly tell the truth will lose advertisers, so they don’t. They find subtle ways of communicating. Experienced readers have had to learn to read between the lines.
I would agree that maybe it was the wartime references he didn’t appreciate.
However, I think you said almost everything anyone in pro audio (and those of us who think we are) would say and answered those questions reasonably. If Uli was to scour the forums he would quite regularly see his surname (and indeed his product name) is quoted as a swear word – this you didn’t do or even reference so for a start you were being nice.
On the other hand, the man has made his business by selling cheap/affordable gear to the masses and I don’t think his reliability is any worse than some other reputable manufacturers. He may have reverse engineered a few products but now he doesn’t need to.
I would definitely look at one – you could get two and have a backup!
Cheers Dave
Guten Tag Alles!
as you know, my desk is usually covered in piles of schizer but, every now and again, a real gem shines through. I’m spraching, of course, about Australien’s very own CX magazine.
In Austria, we have come to recognise meglamania when we see it.
In Australia, no-one seems to do it better than CX magazine’s Julius Grafton.
Julius recently took time out of his valuable schedule to review our new X32 mixing desk – http://cxmagblog.com/2012/09/13/behringer-angry-at-cx-review-of-x32/
And so, I return the favour.
Enjoy Mein Liebschens!
- Uli
A Review
It was a time when primal soup splooshed the Earth. The skies rained acid and clouds of CO2 blocked the direct light of the sun. Within this turgid miasma, an unholy union took place between a music promoter, a band moll, a bouncer, a female rock journalist, two bov-ver boys and a drummer who could count past four.
Nine months later, this most unnatural of graft-ons bore fruit as a random lightning strike split open an egg on a mountain top and, before you could say, “toooooo, wunnnnnn, toooooo, wunnnnnn, toooooo”, out burst a fully formed boy.
Looking down from their VIP cage on Mount Selinas, the Rock Gods named him Jules.
Jules grew fast, he grew strong and, though the evidence has been lost in the sands of time, it is even rumoured he grew hair, a multi-coloured mullet – not unlike Limahl from Kajagoogoo.
While not a great listener, the young Jules discovered he could hear and, although very shortsighted, he saw lights everywhere. Patterns of wonder would form between his eyes and ears and in his mind he made Connections.
Jules used this gift to help the Rock Gods of Mount Selinas, imparting his knowledge whenever they had trouble with filtering their combs, panning their fields or folding back a wedge.
As news of his successes became amplified, the young Jules grew vain, he grew self-important – but he grew no new hair.
In addition to his valuable advice, Jules would also offer opinions. At first, the Rock Gods of Mount Selinas ignored these opinions, bound up as they were in endless, wandering first person narratives. The Rock Gods of Selinas then they grew bored and, finally, they just wanted him to shut up.
As punishment, the now-aging Jules was banished to Sydney’s Kings Cross where he was cast into a dark coma to work in the Gods’ sewers as Head of Fecal Rotation, a position so fraught with unspeakable horror that its only previous survivor was one Ian “Molly” Meldrum.
But, rather than succumb to tortures of this underground hell, Jules flourished, applying his new found skills to his organ … of record … CX Magazine.
As he escaped into the fresh air and warmth of a brand new day, he held his weighty tome aloft and screamed, “Myyyyyyyyyyy Precioussssssssssssssssssss!”
OVERVIEW
All the analogue parts are here – cover, pages, text. There are also optional digital channels available, but these just seem to create unnecessary noise.
I’m also in some confusion about the model name – CX. It’s not transmission (TX) or reception (RX). Like those browsing the news-stands, I can’t quite make the connection …
Would I trust it to my live marketing mix … not likely
Highly dubious, person-known-here-as-Uli. But fun. Whomever you are, a career awaits you at CX! Please apply now.
Hey Julius. I have lots of trouble reading olden day writing and colloquial language & never finished a Shakespeare book at school, so I’m sorry I could only skim the uber bit of your review. If you wrote it then I put you up there in good company with the Bard. But apart from my dyslexic misinterpretation of shiploads I’m afraid nothing else stuck from your intro.
Stuff I read needs to be technically based, preferably have pictures or diagrams, and has to be done with interest and passion. And of course humour always helps. If it is accompanied by audio then even the better. This is a key part of my multiskilling – I can read audio books while doing other things. You can guess I can find sanity and clarity in the Goon shows.
I found your review to be honest behind the giggles. Between the said giggles there were tid-bits of information to which I could relate concerning evolution and natural selection.
So to me the Jimmy & Julius revue was balanced, appropriate, fun, entertaining and something I can discuss with people who are not from the top end of town. There are a lot of them out there. Consumers who will never be million dollar professionals. They have desires, dreams and lead useful lives – and they fill 24 hours in a day. So why not let them have appropriate tools? You did a good revue for the general population, and probably sold some gear for Mr B too, so be happy & power to CX.
Maybe the intro was a little OTT, but well written. As for the critical technical review I agree.
To my mind Behringer makes some great “gadgets” for the tool kit and general MI grade gear at reasonable prices. I have colleagues who still use “original” Behringer gear from the 90s; that gear was not ultra cheap and did the job.
Personally I don’t like using Behringer product in high profile or mission critical applications; which is based on experience and the fact that high quality components aren’t cheap, irrespective of overheads and labour costs.
Here is another review
https://www.storedj.com.au/attachments/Product/3095/SOS%20Review%20X32.pdf?ts=1344408775
There is also a pretty big community around the X32
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/4393-x32-discussion.html
Behringer need to learn to relax a little and have a sense of humour. Give the public some credit. We are quite capable of making our own minds up. The reviewers were direct and did not attempt to do a “selling job”. After all, CX caters for the pro’s, who are a hard bitten bunch a sceptics when it comes to anything “price breakthrough”. The language is no different from what you would hear between technicians at a venue (minus expletives, of course). They are honest opinions based on years of experience and ‘fly by the seat of you pants’ live situations.
Behringer tend to fix a price point first and then design to it. There is nothing wrong with this approach, but it means that something has to give. And in my experience, this usually results in compromised sonic performance. The X32 is designed for a limited budget. This serves a great purpose, but I would never expect it to perform like a Midas Pro series, Avid Venue or the like.
Chill out Behringer. We still love you.
I have always believed that reviews meant to be independent. I have written a few and never ever let someone (except the editor) review them especially the manufacturer/ distrubutor. A review is supposed to be an opinion not an advertising document. Imagine a show reviewer submitting thier review to the director etc for review before publishing. We would all end up buying or seeing something we did not want.
I found the review honest and entertaining. When I purchase gear I want honest reviews not advertorial.
Cheers
Stephen Dean
Berenger are just lucky they didn’t piss off Apple !!! Berenger … integrity ….. no, sorry. I don’t care what they think of your review.
How many times did Graham Kennedy poke fun of a product he was supposed to be advertising ? How many times did the sales figure skyrocket UP afterwards ? Answer = more times than I can count.
It would have been nice to see some real audio tests results to compare the audio signal going in with the audio coming out. Feed an uncompressed digital sample into into a highend ADC and into the desk, feed the desk output into the other channel of the ADC. Freq response? Distortion ? Compression ? Latency ? Freq dependant phase shift ?
Or just compare digital recordings on screen. Was the compressor effect on ? Auto gain ? Could you change the EQ to recover the top end ? Are the ADC & DAC chips replaceable ? What are the specs of the ADC & DAC? Could have asked the maker why it sounded so ‘dull’ before press for a response ? Sometimes a bad review will encourage a manufacturer to make a better product.
Further to what I said before about the interview, here’s echoes of my general experience of Behringer over the past 10 years. Most know that I work in the “budget education sector” and so can guess that I come across this stuff almost daily.
Behringer products are great. Really. They sound great, they work great. It’s just a shame Uli can’t power them properly. 90% of all of my bad experiences with behringer gear boil down to one common denominator : crappy power supplies.
I’ve lost count of how many bits of Behringer rack gear Ive found dead in a rack due to dead power supply. When they do work, they generally run so bloody hot that you know they’re not going to stay working for long.
So please Mr Behringer.. I really hope that with the X32.. you have put in a proper power supply. And by that we don’t mean measuring the load at 300VA and then installing a 300VA supply. Running everything at the absolute limit of the components is not the way to do it.
Cut corners somewhere else, please.
Paul M
Good on you for saying it like it is. You are perhaps the Jeremy Clarkson of the Audio World.
I’m with Mr Cole. I think it was the wartime references and alluding to Uli Behringer as being some kind of dictator that might have made them feel like you’d spit in their steins. The Aryan Nations are very touchy about all that and wish it hadn’t happened at all. Alas, it did, but it did put Germany and her trading partners in a pretty good financial position for a number of decades – AKG, Sennheiser, Philips, Bosch, Dynacord – to name some well known names in the audio industry from that area of Europe which went gang busters after the wars.
You did try to melt their desk in several ways and it kept working – that’s a plus and speaks of some reliability but it is out of a Chinese factory and unless Music Group keep a very tight hold on Quality Control then reliability may go out the window as cheaper components are substituted and build quality is compromised by the very canny Chinese.
How long until Uli City moves to Africa where people work for $2 a day?
Let’s put it in perspective -
If you can only afford a $4 Grand desk you will buy the thing with the most channels, auxilliaries and effects you can. Behringer are there and they’re not the only one. There are lots of people out there who can only afford that for various reasons. Does it stop them working? Only when it breaks, which might be a bit more often. Does it sound really bad or un-acceptable to the punters? No. Trained ears might pick up some sizzle or lack of headroom but for the most part the paying customers don’t care. And let’s face it. At this stage of the game a Behringer mixer is hardly likely to be teamed with a Nexo, d&b or Vdosc speaker system, is it? So you’d be hard pressed to hear the inconsistencies in real world situations.
In that respect Mr Behringer is a Mentsch, just like Dr Porsche who designed the original Volkswagen. How many beetles were sold versus Porsche 911′s?
Wanna do a show in Rod Laver or Sydney Entertainment Centre? Go the big Midas/Soundcraft/DigiCo/Yamaha ‘cos you can get the bucks for it and the show demands it.
All this gear snobbery is for the birds when it’s horses for courses down here on the ground.
Perspective people!
Dear Julius,
I have been watching the communication surrounding your story about the X32 and although tempted, I have thus far stayed out of the discussion. However, seeing that someone is now posting to your blog under my name I felt that it was time I spoke for myself and on behalf of our Company. For the benefit of clarity I would like to set the record straight on a couple of issues.
First, it is important to understand that we are not angry about your story as claimed in the header of your blog. In fact no one from our Company has had any contact with you or your team nor requested to change anything in your story. On the contrary, we have heard from many friends within the industry who seem to be a lot more incensed than we are. While I have concerns about several of the claims made by your co-host and yourself in the story, I wouldn’t say that we are angry as I was actually more amused. Life is just too short and the industry is too small to sweat the small stuff; and it’s all small stuff.
However, to be clear I found the references to my ethnicity, mistakenly identified as German and Austrian, and specifically the references to German wartime to be disturbing. I think that perpetuating ethnic stereotypes is as distasteful as it is damaging; in many countries it is even illegal. As a native of Switzerland I have grown up respecting neutrality, fairness and courtesy; something that I have honestly seen in all of the friendly and wonderful Australians I have met in my life.
That said I would like to comment on some of the opinions expressed in your story, starting with your claims about the sound quality of the X32. It is important to note that several respected magazines, web forums and high-profile users have reviewed the X32 and found its sonic performance to be outstanding. In fact, Prosoundweb.com conducted a “blind” shootout where independent experts clearly found the X32 to have better sonic performance than either the Yamaha LS9 or PreSonus SL24.
Others such as Sound on Sound have conducted extensive tests, using industry-standard test equipment and methods and have also deemed the MIDAS-designed mic preamps among the best they have measured – or heard. This is no accident as we have invested in the right design (MIDAS engineering), the right parts, including the op amps, Cirrus Logic CS5368 converters, Analog Device DSPs and all of the components in the signal path to deliver a product that sets a new standard; not only for value but performance. The results of empirical evaluation are exactly opposite to your expressed opinions. While we certainly respect your view, we would like to refer readers to the multiple reviews from pro audio magazines which you can find on our webpage.
I have already stated elsewhere the US$20 million investment we have made over the past year in fully automating our factory where we build the X32, MIDAS digital consoles and over 5 million other products each and every year. But it may be interesting for you to know that we also own the world’s largest implementation of Audio Precision 515X laboratory measurement systems that we use in production, to measure every single product that leaves the factory. You might also need to know that our product failure rate, verified independently, sits well below 1%. In case you are interested I have answered many questions on http://www.soundforums.net where you will also find a blog with 140,000 viewers and users of the X32 who openly share their experiences.
I understand and accept that our brand has long been the target of disparaging commentary by professional users who see our products as somehow inferior. After all, a certain professional snobbery exists in all industries whether it be pro audio or automobiles, and it generally favors the higher priced brands. I have committed my entire working life to challenging the belief that if it costs less it must somehow be less worthy and proudly built a business that keeps costs low without compromising performance or quality. Our new 3-Year warranty is proof of the confidence we have in our products and our processes.
We are now in our 23rd year and I could not be more proud of our people, our brands, products and the customers who entrust their livelihoods to our quality. I invite you to come to our facility in China and see for yourselves the source of this pride and our commitment to excellence. And I encourage you to write openly and without compromise on your experiences and findings, without influence or direction from us. I believe that you will find the facts support a somewhat different view from the opinions expressed in your story.
Warm regards,
Uli
So we can run the advert now?
Uli,
Thanks for clearing up some very muddy waters. I like what you do and how you do it. If not for Behringer I would not have ever had the opportunity to work in the sound industry – if only a small ‘bit part’.
Would love to see China but can’t afford it – saving for an X32
Keep up the great work at supplying quality gear to the “as professional as a bank allows us” group of soundies.
I have an X32 and use it every day both in the (full blown commercial) studio and for live sound events. On live events, I’ve used it for FOH only, FOH with 8 Monitor mixes and as a 16 mix monitor only console. I’ve used high-end gear for many years and have customized/modified high-end gear to even higher levels. Every day I find myself liking this console more (and I liked it a lot when I purchased it)! People will almost always say the $100 bottle of wine tastes better than the $8 bottle if they know the price, but I know there are some incredible wines out there for $8 and I know that this is an incredible console! Cheers to Uli for providing great quality at a great price!!
Hi Julius, maybe there is a new avenue here for you! there are many of us in Community Theatre, Education etc who cannot afford top end products……may be a new section covering the lower end products in the market, but with a more objective view, we know ” get what you pay for” but many times its all we can afford
Robert
Ouch! Got the nationality wrong? Thats gonna cost some serious points!
I remember when I was studying a few years ago I got to “try” (And yes I am totally tone deaf:P) pulling a mix on a Yamaha O2R. Some time later there was the opportunity to use a Midas …. uh – Venice I think it may have been, it was a lot nicer but probably a lot more expensive/new and a VERY short turn on a D5 (Although, my memory is not what it used to be heh.)
The point is – perhaps if our institution had used more … uh “prosumer” gear with brands like Behringer, then there may have been more kit to go around – more console time for each student. In a way Robert makes a good point.
But I don’t do sound anymore so really can’t comment any further on whether the critisms of the product are accurate or not.
Perhaps some of the Behringer bashing is from a bad batch of ? in the long distant past and the rep is yet to fade.
ALL equipment can fail. I’ve personally seen/presided over some really expensive ones involving brands that are generally held in much higher regard than than Behringer.
In Oz, unlike europe/us there is often very little support available when that happens – you’re support is to have a backup for mission critical stuff and shout at you’re sales rep when you get back to the hotel and have had a few
CX doesn’t bamboozle us with numbers in the reviews. And they shouldn’t – punters don’t care what DAC is in you’re desk – they care about how it sounds. There’s a 515x at the factory?! I hope owning it gives Uli piece of mind. Having hard numbers is no good for reviews on such a subjective thing as sound. It is, however, good to have when the sharks that wear wigs start circling.
To Behringer: I dropped my BCF2000 and it started to flake out, I use a MIDI touch screen now instead.
Before then my trusty MIDI thingamajig (Pretty low rent – only 200 bucks. And not really an audio device per-se) was firing the “Go” cue for several large international events, corporate events, theatre shows etc. This little 200 gem saved my ass a bunch of times and was at the head of a 2 million dollar rig more than once. And yes, we had a backup
Hi Julius
Great to have the opportunity to add a thought!
Your editorial independence is one the tenets of a civilised world. It must be maintained as we will swamped by PR and spin.
I think the techo review was honest and clean. And please keep the reviews like that.
However the section about the lifestyle of Uni B was too emotive and based on hearsay. I wouldn’t like such a hypothetical piece written about me.
In short, part of the article was over the top, but the rest was great.
All the best,
Glenn Leembruggen
Hey Julius
IMHO (which is worth what you paid for it…) I think the the German stuff and the “master on the cliff” stuff was pretty far over the top. I get that it was humor. And that’s a matter of style. And take it with a grain of salt. THis is coming from a guy who once almost got fired for publishing a “raped by a sound guy” joke that did not go over well with the PR person for a certain speaker company so my ear for humor isn’t great.
But there were two other things i find interesting. The “advance approval” thing. THis was probably just a horrible choice of words on the part of someone in marketing. I ALWAYS send gear reviews out before we publish for a fact check. Not prior approval but if we got a fact wrong I want to know before we publish. I’ve been doing this a long time. Maybe as long as you and have always done fact checks all the way back to the GIG days in the late ’80s. Do i get marketing people who want me to change stuff that is not a factual error? All the fucking time. And I don’t do it. And, yeah, it cost my former employers some advertisers.
The other thing is the “safe arms of Bosch” thing… I know a bunch of people over there. A bunch. And Bosch bought that whole group of companies for Telex. They had no real interest in anything else. For God’s sakes, Midas and EV–proud US and UK pro audio brands with huge legacies–reduced to being part of the “security division” of a company that makes lawn mowers and dishwashers? Really? I think that just the new products released–The “fake Midas” Venice and Verona and the insanely over-priced XL-8 versus the game-changing Pro series–speaks to the commitment that the Music Group has made to Midas versus the lack of commitment Bosh gave them. I mean, you were there, i don’t have to tell you that it was obvious to those (like you and me) paying attention that Bosch was preparing to dump Midas a year before it actually happened. Uli didn’t pluck them from a caring owner. An absentee owner was looking to dump a property they did not value.
We have had an X32 out for a couple of months putting it through its paces. We’ve used it on real gigs and I have yet to have one operator give me any shit about it at all. Now, we didn’t send it out on rider-gigs where a specific console or consoles were spec’d. But everyone has been very happy with it. I have not actually mixed a show on it but that’s only because i can’t pry it out of the hands of the regional rental house that’s been doing shows with it. And last I checked, they were looking to buy. Not one but SEVERAL.
Anyways, just my two cents for what that’s worth. One of these days I gotta actually visit your fine continent…
-b
Rubbishing a product you haven’t seen is as stoopid as rubbishing a theatre work you haven’t seen. It only belittles the ignorant fool on the soapbox. The ability to repeat what you hear demonstrates the IQ of a parrot. I PURCHASED AN X32 AND USED IT AT A GIG ! My reaction: First thing tomorrow I AM PURCHASING A SECOND ONE !!! Hope my actions speak louder than some of the above words.. Uli continues to be a personal hero…
Wow, this has certainly been an interesting thread to follow. Thank you Uli for your great response.
Personally, I tend to skip over a lot of the humour as my tastes are a little different from many people’s and, considering the world has moved on a long way from the old Sonics days as well as the cultural broadness of the modern audience, perhaps getting someone to sanity check the tone of articles is a good idea even if just for country of origin facts
Unfortunately, it takes a very long time for impressions to change and perception even more so because I have found, you can’t successfully argue against perception.
There were some Behringer products of old, like a Eurodesk that I used for a while, that sounded different to other manufacturer’s products if used with the same techniques as we would use for other manufacturers. For me, the EQ did sound different and having the frequency knob in the “wrong” place was confusing.
Rabbit has obviously invested time and energy in working out how to get the best from his Eurodesk gear and that’s great. I remember there was a cheap Soundcraft model I used years ago that was positively awful but that didn’t make me start using their name as a cathartic exclamation of annoyance.
Good products being taken over by larger organisations can be bad – like Jaguar et al under Leyland; or can work out well – its certainly better than losing them forever. It is what the product manufacturers do and, in particular, are resourced to do that makes the difference.
There was a great comparison opportunity in Perth at SoundTown between the X32 and the Pro2 and the X32 stood up really well in that situation. The Pro2 seemed to be nicer when summing a number of channels (test was multitracked band split into the two desks and back to the same monitoring) but the difference was a LOT smaller than the almost 1/4 of the price would suggest.
thanks for a great and rigorous discussion an a forum in which to throw around ideas and views.
We are humbled and honored to have received nominations in the Mix Online’s 28th Annual TEC Awards for outstanding technical achievements.
Both the Behringer X32 and the Midas PRO2/2C mixing consoles were nominated across two categories.
http://mixonline.com/news/tec_awards…09//index.html
Congratulations! – Julius
Reviews should be bold, unbiased and honest in their assessment. Entertaining? Even better! Here, I think the CX article succeeds (although the ethnic slant was weak if not embarrassing). Many reviews read like promotional material from the seller, which is simply a shame.
Although products should be reviewed on their individual merit, reputation is relevant to buyer expectations, especially since it take time for issues around quality control to come to light. And while I personally think that people unfairly speak of Behringer’s reputation in an almost mythical way, it IS what it IS. And CX would be remiss not to touch on it.
In reality, the heart of the article’s assessment of the X32 is very neutral. The advice to wait for version 2.0 is good and applies to most new products. But the negativity towards Uli and his company at the beginning plays opportunistically into Behringer’s reputational history in a way that I think sours the whole flavor of the review.
Personally, the article had no impact on my impression of the Behringer X32. I chose to purchase one never having laid hands it. I based my decision on other more compelling feedback online, including a SoS review that used performance-testing equipment to assess the X32 as well as blogs from actual users’ road testing the X32 in live audio settings (see, for example, soundforums.net).
Behringer is holding out the X32 as the poster child for its efforts to reverse its negative reputational history. This is a huge gamble for the company. If true, they certainly improve their future sales prospects. If they fail, then this looks like a huge publicity stunt that cements their reputational fate for some time. Personally, I am cheering for Behringer. If they succeed, we all win with more product options at affordable price points.
As for CX, if their assessment proves to be out of line with the rest of the sound community, they will probably be excused for their hesitancy given Behringer’s reputation. Ironically, their own reputation will be none the worse for wear. That may seem unfair, but it IS what it IS.
Uli – very thoughtful response above. Your pride in the Behringer brand and the X32 product is your strongest selling point.
Thanks Kevin for your objective and accurate opinion.
I concede fully that my attempts at light, shade and humor in regards to the cartoon-esq depiction of Uli in his clifftop mansion were misguided at best, and obviously in hindsight offensive to some. For this I apologize unreservedly to Uli, and to those offended. Our sub editor Steve certainly did question some of the text, problem was that the review panel comprised just myself. We’ve decided in future to take referrals relating to taste and attempted to humor to our other main writers for a judgement call before publication.
I was wrong to accuse Uli of being Austrian when he is not – and the German phrase was over the top.
As you point out, we did indeed show a bias at the head of the review – I think it is important to state where you stand, if you have a prejudice or bias, so that readers can factor that. Uli says we are the only media outlet on the plnaet to raise issues with the X32. I say we raised two issues that matter – the subjective aural performance of the pre-amps (we didn’t say this was bad, just soft) and the gutless headphone amp. Other than that, I think we covered off all the important features of the product.
- Julius
I too was briefly confused about the comment about something going wrong with a Different digital desk to the Behringer being reviewed. It could have been worded differently, or maybe name the product.
Was that to show digital desks can do weird shit in general? If so then more info please, otherwise if not rewritten to be more meaningful then maybe that paragraph should have been omitted.
Back to the Behringer: I am definitely interested in this desk and also the (newly named) Eurolive 48/8/2 Analogue desk. Why? Because, as Jimmy said, if that is all the money you have then it’s that or nothing. With most Behringer products I find there are more I/O connections than just about anything else on the market, and that extends to their guitar amps and other stuff in the range. Can save time and money when hooking up to other stuff. (maybe the competition can emulate their cheaper competitor).
Is their range perfect? no way, but at that price I can live with most of the shortcomings. Do I have gripes? Yep. Many of their desks are flimsy and need to be handled with care. Sliders and nobs on some of my Behringer stuff feel really cheap and i wonder how long they will last. But then i recently broke a graphic EQ slider on one of my Yamaha units so I should be more careful all round.
The DSP chip on my Behringer PMP500 died so no more built in effects. I am told the chip is easy to replace, but hard to find from where. My biggest gripe is not enough gain from the input for the mics and the gain control jumps 10dB when set to extreme clockwise. A real pain when trying to set up the gain levels. A button for +/-20dB would be better. And the master mute should have a flashing led – not be recessed black-on-black!!!! And a genuine 300-350 watts RMS into 8ohms/600-700RMS into 4ohms would make the amps really useful
But these are minor gripes.
I have used expensive equipment (occasionly) and still been annoyed at ergonomics and performance so if behringer can fix a few things (and not blow the price through the roof) they will be on a winner.
Whatever they say, This is a nice board and it does what id does, with a great value. I am fan of x32 now for sure. Check out some of my reviews.
Interesting ERG Blog on video…. we need to wear a shirt like this on CX-TV!
People, it’s a shame.All of you firmly know that any device is just a part of a whole system and the small differences in the sounding between – to say!- that or those mixer are not a great problem especially when keeping in mind the fact that the EQ’s have been invented many years ago.The main factor always has been and will be the mix of the personal abilities of the sound master and his technical knowledge and experience.Uli Behringer gave the small budget people – and they are too many and in between them every year grow few real masters – to express themselves and they do it all over the world.Thanks.
These days I was forced to work firstly with Yamaha LS9 – 32 and after that with Behringer X32.Immediately I bought X32 and will buy still one.:eanwhile, for the money LS9-32 costs I can buy 3 x X32 and have to say that for my tasks X32′s architecture is significantly better and the machine is sounding pretty well.
I am a professional software developer and audio engineer. I’ve used all sorts sorts of desks. I recently spent some time on the X32 with a local band who was literally returning their desk to guitar center b/c it was “too complicated”. I’ve been training them and setting up the X32 for some upcoming gigs. While the desk sounds OK so far there are a number of annoyances. Yes the headphone amp does not have enough gain. You cannot easily tell an input is working by soloing it up. The user interface is at times hostile and non–intuitive. The fact that the first 4 effects are useable in a standard mix bus-effects return while the second 4 are only available as insert loops is not well indicated. The fact that you cannot route one of the second 4 effect outputs back to an input channel was quite frustrating. The manual describes a pitch shifter effect, yet none is in the console. (perhaps a software update has it?) Naming a strip is like spelunking in a cave of menus and layered button sequences. The parametric eq visual graph displays +/- 20db or more. This actually encourages crazy eq curves and users wonder why things sound like they do. Important functions like scene saving only appear to be available through pressing the ‘view’ button on the right of the console. I could go on and on.
I appreciate Behringer providing inexpensive audio products. I think the X32 has a lot of features and will appeal to a lot of folks. I haven’t used it enough to comment on the sound quality yet, but should get some live time soon.
Nice colors on the channel strip display back lights.
Dear Don,
While I fully respect your personal first impression, please allow me to set some of the facts straight which you mentioned in your post.
__”4 FX side chain / 4 FX insert only” > the Effects page is separated in two rack with 4 processors each. The left rack is labled “side chain / insert”, while the right rack is labled “insert”. In addition the writing on the source selection control indicates either Source or Insert, depending on the selected rack. Accordingly, only the available assignments are listed to chose from. So, I suppose it is in fact sufficiently indicated what can be used and where.
__”Rout insert effects back to input channel” > by definition the 4 insert effects will be routed back into the same channel or bus they are tapped from. You can even determine, if it is supposed to be returned before or after EQ and Dynamics stages. You can also insert the second 4 effects into any available bus, and of course the bus signal can be fed back as a source for any input channel. All of this is possible already, but of course for the sake of clarity in the UI we had to impose some restrictions on flexibility (that would technically be possible, too). That’s why 4 FX slots are strictly defined to be inserts, while the other 4 can be both, insert or side chain operated.
__”Pitch Shifter” > For technical implications the pitch shifters are not available in the insert FX slots. However, there are two different (dual, stereo) pitch shifters available in the first two FX slots–and they have been there from firmware 1.0 onwards.
__”Naming a strip cumbersome” > Yes, fully agreed, the first solution was less than optimal. So we have released a firmware update 1.08 back in August, which allows accessing the naming page directly by just holding a channels select button and pressing ‘Utility’. Meanwhile we are about to release fw 1.10, which has numerous other improvements and features. I can only encourage visiting the Behringer X32 websites regularly, since updates can be done easily within minutes…and they are absolutely free.
__”PEQ encourages crazy settings” > I struggle to get your point right. The parametric EQ gain range is +/-15 dB (which I suppose is a reasonable range) and since there may be some overlap, the resulting actual response may be in excess of 15 dB in some areas. I think there is nothing wrong with it. The X32 graphic routine even has the specific benefit that it is actually representing the filter’s frequency response, unlike other implementations where graphics routines are calculated from the settings to emulate the real response.
__”Scene functions only available pressing View” > Yes, you directly open the Scenes menue pressing View in the Scenes section, and pressing encoder number 4 directly stores your current settings. Is two clicks really too much for storing your complete setup?
Plus, you should not forget that you can assign any of the 8 user buttons to jump to any specific page (including the scenes pages), if you prefer that.
__”Headphone amp not enough gain” > In addition to the Phones Level control there are a couple of settings that determine what you are hearing (press View in the Monitoring section). However, the physical max volume on Phones ouputs is much depending on the headset’s impedance. So I recommend testing different phones (preferably with impedances 30-50 Ohms) if maximum output is of paramount importance. Output specification is 40 Ω / +25 dBm, and e.g. AKG rating the headphones with sensitivities between 88-105 dB per mW. So, the maximum SPL in these headphones hooked to the X32 will be 103-130 dB …
__”Cannot tell an input is working soloing it up” > I don’t quite understand what problem you might have had, but again there are several preferences you can alter after pressing View in the Monitoring section. In fact, the X32 monitoring section goes way beyond the functionality of other digital consoles ‘south of’ say 10k$.
I hope I am not offending you with all these points. As I said I respect your view and it is very informative for me (as one of the principle designers of the UI) and allows me to learn from you, rather. Let us know how your further uses of X32 (which btw was just being granted the Audio Media award “Best gear of the year”) turned out.
All the best,
Jan Duwe
Assistant Manager Conceptual Engineering
Music-Group Services EU
I’ve been able to spend more time on the desk since my first impression. I will certainly do the firmware upgrades. The desk does sound pretty nice. I used the usb recorder and the recording had gaps in it. Not silence, just missing content. I had an 8 gig usb stick with other files on it so perhaps the desk was busy finding space to write to. The recording ui is simple but I wish it had a way to mark or split tracks while recording. I like to roll a two-track during rehearsals for review later.
One day each control panel button will fail. My assumption is that it will fail when I need it most. My artist is on stage in front of a crowd, waiting for ME. I want every function on the desk to be accessible from two places. menus are cheaper than hardware buttons so help me out here. Give me two ways to get to everything.
I will be using the x32 for a live gig this weekend. More notes and mp3 files after that!
I hope my English makes sense for it is not my native language. As a studio engineer I have to say often become sick of many of my colleages. Making and mixing music is not about the dollars. Music was there far before the engineers existed, and who snobistically (is that a word?) find that their opinions matter. It doesn’t. Quality improvement? Sure! Dumping dirt on things below a certain price? Ridiculous! Generalizing a brand? Get a life! I have worked with several equipment, high en low priced materials (see how I avoid high and low end), and in both prices I found good and bad stuff. I found famous brands, accepted brands performing horribly and also of course greatly and vice versa for the cheaper brands. Reading a review like an advertisement gives me shivers, reading a prejudiced one just the same. The colours added to a review on equipment should be neutral, the tone in this review showed me it was not. That being said, I respected the responses that showed some dignity and fairness, including the ones of Uli Behringer himself as wel as the more or less rectivation in Jules’ response. Nevertheless, I can’t help finding myself in a world where populism in a way, to feed the greedy hungry mouths is taking over the rules of engagement. Sadly that goes in many directions, not just the audio industry. I guess a man speaks the words of the man that feeds him…
@Don Sullivan – RE: your comment about having two ways to do everything; I have found (in my admittedly limited time with a demo board as I don’t *yet* own an X32) that most of the physical controls can also be operated by the encoders on the screen. I haven’t exhaustively verified this, but all the major/important functions I wanted can already be adjusted both on the physical control surface, or through encoders in the display. I think the view buttons in each control section that take you to the appropriate page in the screen are a huge time saver and advantage over many desks I have looked at. Furthermore, don’t forget either the iPad app or the xControl software on the PC – xControl will let you control just about everything, and the iPad app is closing the gap with each new update – which seem to be coming each month pretty steadily. I agree that physical knobs (or any hardware) can and will pick the most inopportune time to malfunction – but the X32 certainly beats the pants off of any analog board where each function has but one control for all but the rarest of the rare.
Furthermore Behringer has fully published their complete implementation for OSC and MIDI – so if you don’t like their software and have the skills or know someone who does, you can cook up whatever your heart desires. In the ProSoundWeb JV thread a few people have already reported on how they have integrated the X32 with external scene management software (Multiplay being a free – and Australian written! – program that I am eagerly awaiting to try).
My point on the redundant control points was mainly focused on the View button for scene control on the desk. Yes, I use the short cut keys to grab the EQ of an input for example or I could arrow through the screens to do the same. But the scene view button on the control panel has no equivalent through menu navigation ( at least that I could find).
If that button dies you MUST be using a remote control interface to access those functions.
I have to comment about the PC remote control app. I was really hoping for a LOT more than I saw. Basically the PC remote control app is a CLONE of the console display and certain physical controls with one important drawback. Tiny faders. (Ugh)
The most use I’ve had for the PC remote control app so far is sniffing the UDP packets to and from the console.
I’ve already started on a tablet control app using the OSC protocol. This will take a little while as I am only spending a few hours a week on it. I am grateful that the desk supports the protocol. I’d like to get to the point where I no longer need the desk out in the house. That could happen as soon as this summer.
I’ve also spent a lot more time on the desk. There are some great things, and some very frustrating things. I”m getting used to the meters and enjoy the LED indicators for compression and gating built into the LED VU displays.
I finally found the headphone trim adjustment. Adding +9db lets me solo/listen to open mics on a stage to hear ambient noise. (Quick way to make sure things are plugged in)
I did the firmware upgrade, this made naming a channel strip a lot easier. I could not use the Class 6 USB memory stick I record to, however, (Sandisk Ultra 8Gb) as it does not “come up” fast enough. While failing the firmware upgrade with the Ultra USB stick though many attempts, I felt a little frustrated since the firmware instructions do not say if you should copy the zip file to the USB stick or unzip the contents to the stick. Turns out you just put the zip file into the root of the memory stick. The instructions also do not say if you must perform a series of upgrades from your current version to the latest one or if you can just jump to the latest version, which I did and it worked fine. I ended up using a Sony SF-32NX SD HC card in a Sandisk MicroMate USB adapter to install the firmware.
It had been weeks since I set up the routing on the desk and we had an opening act I needed to add a monitor mix for this weekend. I scratched my head for way too long trying to remember how to make the sends Pre-Fader for the extra bus. Perhaps I am just getting old.
I am always hesitant to recall scenes on a digital desk during a show or between acts. The risk of a buried setting muting something vital or causing feedback instantly keeps me away. But this weekend I decided to try it. We set up the headliner, saved a scene then changed things around for the opening act. After the opening act was done I recalled the preset for the headliner. Mostly everything worked. the channels I had re-named however did not revert to their original names. This being such an obvious item made me wonder if other things had not been recalled, and sure enough I spent the next twenty minutes chasing down a routing issue causing feedback whenever I raised the fader of the headliner lead singer too much. This was not the console’s fault but my own of course as it turned out that I had a monitor feed inadvertently routed from an effects buss, but it reminds me of how buried some important things are on this desk and many other digital desks. I’ve been mixing for over twenty years, and writing software nearly as long. If I have to scratch my head that long what chance does a weekend musician have?
Routing and grouping are the first thing I am working on in my app. I sorely want an intuitive end to end routing picture to keep me from scratching my head in front of thousands of people who cannot hear what they paid to listen to.
The bands I’ve worked with using the x32 really like how they sound, and as much as I’d like to take all the credit, the desk is earning its keep.
A more serious approach on sound quality would have been nice. You are probably both biased a great deal by the Behringer label on the case (I would be too), so a blind test or at least some decent measurement would not hurt. Especially since audio quality is your main concern. So please read up on your lacking audio test skills.
I suspect it was the last paragraph that caused the problem, would you buy this desk etc; Only a complete moron with a history of lobotomy’s would buy a different desk in this price range and x4. But to be fair, Jimmy hasn’t said whether he comes in that catagory or not. The other possibility is that you are a label snob and very wealthy… but the story is similar to Skoda cars, once utterly dreadful, (which Behringer never really was) and now a real quality product with the intervention of VW. So. I’ve bought one and am covering it in Midas stickers… for now. And am VERY happy!
I should point out that I’m not saying I have a Skoda car covered in Midas stickers… that would be silly…
How about a Skoda with a Behringer sticker??
I am a Freelance Engineer based in South Africa,with 16 years of experience engineering way to many bands to list in over 43 countries. &
I am 100% sold on the X32! It is, in my humble opinion the best “Small Format” Digi console on the market at the moment!
My 1st choice of Digi Console will always be the AVID Venue or Midas Pro9. But as far as small desks go the X32 is my new Favourite!
I used it for the first time 2 weeks ago at an Arts/Cultural Festival in Oudsthoorn, South Africa called “Die KKNK” This festival has been running for 19 years and recently won the award for “Best Arts Fest In Southern Africa”
Every year it attracts upwards of 200 000 people from Southern Africa and abroad,for 8 days of music, theatre & dance, so it is by no means some “pokey’ little Festival in the middle of nowhere. It is has funding from The Edinburgh Festival, the Dutch Arts council as well as the German Arts council to name but a few.
Anyway back to the X32. Over the 8 days I ran 36 shows in my venue & not once did the X32 give me trouble! The same cannot said for consoles the likes of the “Industry Standards” Yamaha Ls9 or Si Compact
Not Even when a drunk punter decided to pull the IEC out the back of the console, did it falter! It has an impressive load Boot time of around 10s with no massive “Bang” over the PA, thanks to it digital cut-off over the outputs.
The Preamps sound amazing as do the Effects, & I find the Para Eq rather sweet! When I wanna ‘Kill’ 1,5Khz by lets say 4db with a 3 db que, it actually does it! Realtime, no waiting around for the “brain” to wake up. It’s instant.
I also love the ‘View Button’ which accompanies every section on the desk, for the simple reason that ever since the “digital Console” revolution started, engineers stopped using their Ears , in favour of there eyes! We’re Sound Engineers not lighting engineers.
With individual view buttons, I quickly found that it was way quicker just to go back to the “old school” way of doing sound i.e.. listening instead of hunting round for the view button so you could “See” what something sounds like!!
The X32 also has the fastest recall (Fader flip) I’ve ever seen on a “small Format” console and the faders return to there positions with far more accuracy then most Digi consoles out there! ( The Vi6 still has the slowest flip mode around)
There are a couple of things that bugged me such as not being able to ‘PAIR’ even to odd channels succinctly, ie ch 2 to ch 3 that Im sure they will sort out with new firmware updates, not the biggest train smash in the world!
On the whole I think Behringer have done it & can now actually class themselves as a professional Audio equipment manufacturer.
The X32 in my opinion, looks set to turn the ‘Pro’ Digi console market upside down & give the ‘Big’ Boys a serious wake up call!
One final comment I have for Behringer is , Thank you! You clearly had your Ears to the ground & listened to what we as engineers want from a Digital console!
I shall definitely be posting more comments/suggestions to Behringer over the next few weeks.
Cheers,
Steve Grenfell